[Vhfcn-l] Same As Alaska Air
Arnold B Christensen
abc15 at mindspring.com
Tue Mar 19 20:43:16 EDT 2019
way to go Don. Only takes a minute of two to take
a look see. I like your shaking things. In
Germany we had a couple of L-19's and an L-20 and
my H-13. That was 62-65. I was always giving
vertical parts back and forth and horizontal part
up and down. I had done the same when helping in
my prior unit back in the states and even the
vertical and horizontal stabilizers on my
H-21C. Then there was the day I hitched a flight
with Lt Jesse Lozano in an L-19. We take off and
are out over the ocean off the field and he asks
if I am strapped in...I say yes of course and he
does a full roll to the right then one to the
left then goes into a dive and does two loopty
loops. Honestly, I could not talk...was not
believing what he did...didn't know that an L-19
could do that! The civilian there at the Field
Maintenance Shop met us and asked me if I was
alright. I told him I was and he told me I looked
bad around the gills. Never forget that! So we
were walking across the ramp and I ask him why he
did that. He looked me straight in the eyes and
seriously said, that is how you check to be sure
the wings and horizontal Stabilizer don't fall
off the aircraft. Jesse was a pilot who flew
anything as if he had been born in it. He was
from New Mexico and always made fun of my New
England accent. I was the only Yanqui in the
Section...everyone else was from below the Mason Dixie line.
By the way the L-19 landed with both wings sittin
on top and a complete Tail Section still installed where it was supposed to be!
Years later as a Chief Tech Inspector in Hanua
Germany in the 42nd Trans Co (Direct Support).
One of my TI's came into the office with a young
looking W2 and tells me that his boss told him to
fly up to us from Babenhausen. Wanted me to come
and look at their H-13. So we get out on the
ramp and walk up to this old bird and I ask him
what is up. He asks me how much the stabilizer is
allowed to feel like it is loose. I climb up and
shake the stabilizer and like all H-13
Stabilizers it rattled a bit. I climbed down and
looked at him and told him..."About that much
sir." Seems awfully loose says he. There are a
couple of other H-13's there on the ramp and I
invited him to walk with me and first one I told
him to climb up and shake the Stabilizer Bar. He
got down and his eyebrows went up and he thought
that the Stab bar was loose too. We did the same
with a second ship with the same results. One
more to go...and before he climbs up this One I
tell him that if you find an H-13 Stabilizer Bar
that does not rattle like his and the other two
do do not fly it. Something is wrong. It is
splined to the mast and there is a measurement
that can be made of the splines to be sure they
are within specs...but I have never seen it done,
and I know that they all feel like that. Not to
worry sir but if your Aviation Officer wants it
checked we can do it but it will be down for at
least week. So...take her home and discuss it
with him. It is safe the way it is. Then he asks
me if I will fly with him and tell about a
vibration it has. Sure? We get strapped in and
I note that both doors are removed. As we hit
about 30 knots the bubble starts a rumble and
shake a little bit and you can feel it and was we
gain airspeed it disappears. So I tell him to
make a normal landing and as we slow down here
comes the rumble again, and as he comes to a
hover it disappears. Again he is looking at me
with his eyebrows high up on his forehead. I
give him a look...and ask What? Did you not feel
it again as we slowed down? Sure they all do
that. I then asked him how many times he had
flown that aircraft with the doors
removed. Never! So I take him back in there
hangar/office and ask who crews that 13. I do
Sarge one of them says. I ask him if he would get
one of the other guys to help him to install the
doors and safety wire them up. After a bit they
come back in and I tell the Warrant we are going
back to Hanua and he can drop me off. What about
the rumble he asks? You will see I reply. Crank
it up and all is good on runup and off we go and
get some altitude and airspeed. So I then ask
him if he notices that I made the rumble go away.
Naw...you didn't anything that I saw. Ok, shoot
an autorotation to a hover and watch for the
rumble. He does a good 180 Auto and flares at the
middle of the runway and sets it down. Now he is
looking at me with one of them quizzical(sp)
looks. I ask him to take off again and take me
back to Hanua so I did not miss lunch. So off we
go back to Hanua...no rumbles in the
bubble....and we shut down and get out and I ask
him to look at his aircraft again. What is
different from when you were here about a couple
of hours ago? Nothing he says. I tell him to look again!
Oh, yeah Sarg it has doors on it. So it does not
get wind buffeting around inside the cabin
because they are installed and that also stiffens
up the bubble in the door area. No rumble. That
was too easy sir! What have you been flying? A
huey and I just got checked out a couple of days
ago. We shook hands and he said thank you, got in
fired it up and gave me a wave and off he
went. Never saw him again. I hope he is still
alive and doing well today. Experience does work many times.
Chris the Bigfoot
At 07:59 AM 3/19/2019, Donald Jackson wrote:
>When working as an A&P mechanic in the '70s I
>would remove every inspection panel on an
>aircraft that I was pulling a 100 hour or annual
>inspection on, and look inside. If it moved it
>got lubed, if it didn't move I made sure it was
>properly tight and secure. On a lot of
>airplanes, I broke paint when I pulled the
>panel. Some of the customers did not like having their paint disturbed!
>When working part time for a FBO in Southern
>California, we did a 100 hour on a Cessna 401 as
>part of the deal for a new buyer. After we were
>through, the buyer thanked us for doing a
>thorough inspection. As the dealer was paying
>for it he had expected us to pencil-whip
>it. Not if my number was going in that log book!!!
>I always gave the horizontal and vertical
>stabilizers a hard shake. One day Carl Wiser
>asked me why I did that. I told him that one
>day I would find one that was loose, then
>grabbed the vertical stabilizer on a Cessna 182
>and shook it. I was rewarded with about 4" side
>to side movement and two loud "clunks". The
>bolt holes had wallowed out and radial cracks
>had started to develop. That aircraft flew
>pipeline patrol at low altitude and was always in turbulence.
>All of which just goes to show that you can't be too careful.
>
>Don Jackson
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Arnold B Christensen via Vhfcn-l <vhfcn-l at vhfcn.org>
>To: Donald Jackson <Tiger129ts at aol.com>
>Cc: vhfcn-l-vhfcn.org <vhfcn-l at vhfcn.org>
>Sent: Mon, Mar 18, 2019 11:38 am
>Subject: Re: [Vhfcn-l] Same As Alaska Air
>
>I would also bet that the plane owner was
>complicet in the deal when he found out the it
>would cost a pile of money and material to fix it
>correctly, if there was a proper fix for the
>problem originally found. The dude got what he
>got. While working at Bell Helicopter I was a
>DMIR which is a Designated Manufactoring
>Inspection Representative for the FAA. Had to go
>to annual FAA training and it was always
>interesting to hear the stories from others about
>OOP's that were found. The stuff that can go on
>at night inside a closed up hangar or
>or barn door.
>Da Foot
>
>
>At 04:39 PM 3/17/2019, you wrote:
> >I don't have any experience with large
> >commercial aircraft, but I have some with
> >smaller 4 -6 place aircraft. Records are one
> >thing, like Arnold says can come back and bite
> >somebody in the backside. I used to work for
> >the FAA FSDO in Anchorage a little over 20 years
> >ago. While there doing a routine inspection of
> >a Cessna 185, we checked the records of an
> >aircraft that showed the right front doorpost
> >had been "repaired" some 10 years prior. Since
> >this is a structural member, we decided to pull
> >the upholstery from around it, and look at the
> >repair. We found that somebody had welded the
> >1/8" thick formed 6061 aluminum back together
> >after being broken in an accident. That is not
> >permitted because it softens the material by
> >removing the toughness done in heat treating the
> >aluminum. The A&P Mechanic, who also had an
> >FAA Inspection Authorization (about the same as
> >Senior TI in the Army) that did the repair and
> >signed it off ended up losing his A&P License,
> >his AI designation, and was facing a $40,000
> >civil penalty the last I heard of the case.
> >
> >John Hart
> >
> >On 3/17/2019 12:47 PM, Arnold B Christensen via Vhfcn-l wrote:
> >
> >>Remember this as he flew it to their
> >>deaths...but there was nothing at all the
> >>pilots could have done. The stories behind
> >>these crashes just piss me of to no end.
> >>Imposter Wife and I will never fly in anyones
> >>aircraft ever again. The jack screw is a
> >>lousy mechanical set up at best. Requires
> >>lubrication and it is hidden and should be a
> >>mandatory Quality Inspection point while it is
> >>being performed. Why ? Because it takes time
> >>and the airlines...depending on who is running
> >>the maintenance show do not have time. At least
> >>that would be the damned excuse they would use.
> >>So someone...always Quality Guys or Gals need
> >>to watch it be done because at least in my mind
> >>having been on of the first Chief Tech
> >>Inspectors and Quality Supervisors at Bell
> >>Helicopter for 30 yrs combined are the only
> >>guys who do not give a crap about how long it
> >>takes you to do your job or your bosses
> >>schedule and will keep you on the ground until
> >>it is done correctly. And if you are flying
> >>foreign airlines there is a whole nuther
> >>problem with time and schedule. At Bell I got
> >>the chance to look at Bell Dynamic components
> >>sent in for repair or overhaul from foreign
> >>Commercial and Military Aircraft. They were
> >>sent in for specific work to be done. Several
> >>times those components were sent back from
> >>whence the came from because they were not safe
> >>to fly and had not been so for many hours of
> >>operation. Received in Unserviceable Condition
> >>Red Tag with my name on it. I have looked at
> >>unserviceable transmissions that had been
> >>written off as such which came into the shop
> >>accompanied by not only a FAA guy to watch the
> >>teardown but also an FBI Agent. Why...cause
> >>some unscrupulous SOB had made up new records
> >>and somebody decided to check the records on
> >>the thing before using it. Bell keeps the total
> >>record of serialized major components in a very
> >>large warehouse. Those Hueys you guys flew
> >>around in ages ago the names and stamps of
> >>every one that assembled them are in old files.
> >>In the field someone can create new records to
> >>hide things but if caught because the originals
> >>are still on file where they cannot get ahold
> >>of them they can go to jail. Don't trust
> >>anything that somehow has a schedule applied to it!
> >>Da Foot
> >>
> >>
> >>At 04:20 AM 3/16/2019, Roger W. Ek via Vhfcn-l wrote:
> >>><https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgkmJ1U2M_Q>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgkmJ1U2M_Q
> >>>
> >>>An Alaska Air Had this happen more than a
> >>>decade ago, so being a former military pilot,
> >>>he rolled the aircraft inverted and flew that way.
> >>>
> >>><https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWmLZ_C-rM8>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWmLZ_C-rM8
> >>>
> >>>
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